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The Bush Administration’s Oft-Repeated (and Now Challenged) Waterboarding Claims

A new report contradicts the official claim that only three detainees were waterboarded by the CIA. We lay out the Bush administration officials who have repeated the claim over the years.

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President George W. Bush confirms the existence of secret CIA prisons for suspected terrorists and defends "tough" interrogation tactics in a 2006 speech in Atlanta, Ga. A new Human Rights Watch report contradicts the administration's claim that only three detainees were waterboarded. (Jim Watson/AFP/Getty Images)

For many years, Bush administration officials have said that the CIA waterboarded only three terror suspects. Despite nearly endless revelations and investigations about the U.S.'s treatment of detainees, there has never been evidence contradicting those claims. But that changed earlier this month.

Human Rights Watch recently released a report detailing the accounts of 14 Libyan men who claim they were detained and, in some cases, subject to harsh interrogations by the U.S. before being transferred back to Libyan prisons, where they also faced abuse.

One man, Mohammed Al-Shoreoiya, provided a detailed account of being waterboarded "many times" while in U.S. custody in an Afghan prison between 2003 and 2004. Another man described a similar form of water torture, conducted without a board.

None of the men's accounts could be confirmed, but as the New York Times noted, the detainees did not seek out Human Rights Watch, and their descriptions of their treatment, including waterboarding, are consistent with CIA procedural documents that have been made public.

The CIA first confirmed waterboarding in February 2008, when then-CIA director Michael Hayden told a Senate committee that "only three detainees" had been waterboarded — Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Abu Zabaydah, and Abd Al Rahim al-Nashiri. No one, he said, had been subjected to the process since 2003. That claim has been repeated by former President George W. Bush and top officials from his administration. Former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has also noted that the military did not waterboard.

A spokesman for the CIA told ProPublica that "the Agency has been on the record that there are three substantiated cases in which detainees were subjected to the waterboarding technique under the program."

Here are top Bush administration officials stating, again and again, only three detainees were waterboarded [emphasis added]:

George W. Bush

Of the thousands of terrorists we captured in the years after 9/11, about a hundred were placed into the CIA program. About a third of those were questioned using enhanced techniques. Three were waterboarded.

– November 2010, in his memoir, Decision Points.

President Bush also repeated the line in interviews that fall with the Times of London and Fox News.

Dick Cheney, former vice president

It is a fact that only detainees of the highest intelligence value were ever subjected to enhanced interrogation. You've heard endlessly about waterboarding. It happened to three terrorists.

-- May 21, 2009: Dick Cheney, in a speech at the American Enterprise Institute.

In 2009, Cheney made the same claim in another speech and in interviews with the Washington Times, CNN and CBS. In 2011, he mentioned it again in a speech at AEI.

Donald Rumsfeld, former defense secretary

[Michael Hayden] looked at all the evidence and concluded that a major fraction of the intelligence in our country on al Qaeda came from individuals, the three, only three people who were waterboarded... no one was waterboarded at Guantanamo by the U.S. military. In fact, no one was waterboarded at Guantanamo, period. Three people were waterboarded by the CIA, away from Guantanamo and then later brought to Guantanamo.

-- May 3, 2011, in an interview with Fox News.

Rumsfeld repeated the line that year in interviews with CNN, CBS, the Associated Press, Charlie Rose and in a speech in February 2012.

Michael Hayden, former CIA director

Let me make it very clear and to state so officially in front of this committee that waterboarding has been used on only three detainees. It was used on Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, it was used on Abu Zubaydah, and it was used on Nashiri. The CIA has not used waterboarding for almost five years. We used it against these three high-value detainees because of the circumstances of the time.

–Feb. 5, 2008, in testimony to a Senate committee.

Hayden also reiterated the three-person figures in a memo circulated that month to CIA employees and on Meet the Press that March. He repeated it again in an interview with Newsweek in 2009.

John Yoo, former Justice Department official

Waterboarding we think is torture, but it happened to three people. The scale of magnitude is different....We've done it three times."

--June 1, 2008, in an interview with Esquire Magazine.

Yoo also said three people had been waterboarded in a June 2008 congressional hearing.

Karl Rove, senior adviser to Bush

[Coercive techniques] were used against some thirty hard-core terrorist detainees who had successfully resisted other forms of interrogation. Only three were waterboarded.

–March 2010, in his memoir, Courage and Consequences.

Michael Mukasey, former attorney general

The fact is that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who was subjected to enhanced interrogation techniques, including waterboarding — he was one of three people who were waterboarded — did disclose the name — the nickname actually, which was the name that this courier actually used — in the course of the questioning that took place after enhanced interrogation techniques.

--May 17, 2011, in remarks at the American Enterprise Institute.

Jose Rodriguez Jr., former director of the National Clandestine Service at the CIA

In fact, only three detainees: Mohammed, Zubaydah and one other were ever waterboarded, the last one more than nine years ago.

-- May 10, 2012: Jose Rodriguez Jr., in an op-ed on CNN.com

Rodriguez also mentioned the figure in interviews this spring with Fox News and the New Yorker.

Bill Harlow, who co-authored Rodriguez' book on interrogations, said that Rodriguez stands by his statement. "These procedures were not done without extensive documentation and authorization, as part of an officially approved program, and all the documentation there shows three individuals," Harlow said.

The other officials we've cited did not respond to requests for comment.

President Obama came into office proclaiming a ban on torture, stating that waterboarding was unequivocally a form of torture, and making the infamous "torture memos" public. But the administration has said no one would be prosecuted for waterboarding or other interrogation methods previously sanctioned by the government, and announced last month it would close the last two investigations into CIA abuse.

A Justice Department spokesman would not comment on whether the government ever investigated the Libyan cases. Laura Pitter, the author of the Human Rights Watch report, said that none of the men she interviewed said they had been contacted by U.S. investigators about their detention.

The CIA spokesman said that he could not comment on specific allegations, but that "the Department of Justice has exhaustively reviewed the treatment of more than 100 detainees in the post-9/11 period — including allegations involving unauthorized interrogation techniques — and it declined prosecution in every case."

Here’s what you really need to know about torture, especially waterboarding:  The Spanish Inquisitors (which, sure, nobody expected) used these techniques to get confessions of witchcraft out of the accused.

For all the talk about whether it’s morally right or legal, it’s perhaps easier to start asking the question with an easier one:  Do you believe in witchcraft?

It’s one thing to perform an evil task when you can argue that the ends justify the means, but when the “ends” are often false confessions, the equivalent of confessing to trafficking with the devil, it makes the means a bit less justifiable.  And yet nobody in the administration has, to my knowledge, been confronted with that simple question.

Apart from that, I still don’t understand how Obama could (other than his being buddy-buddy with the CIA) stop the torture prosecutions.  He might be able to argue that they were legal because the adminstration condoned or directed them (so much for checks and balances), but the actions directly violate the Geneva Convention.

Specifically, “[p]ersons taking no active part in hostilities, including military persons who have ceased to be active as a result of sickness, injury, or detention, should be treated humanely and that the following acts are prohibited: violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture,” among others.  And as a member of the United Nations, we kind of had an obligation to prosecute for the knowing violation of a pretty major treaty.

Of course, under the NNPT, we’ve been obligated to help Iran on a path to safe nuclear power instead of accusing them of trying to build bombs.  Maybe we withdrew from all these treaties when I wasn’t looking…?

Perhaps each “gentleman” quoted with knowledge of three incidence of water boarding each know of three different instances;-)

Does the fact that a group of Republicans serving under Bush all tell the same lie?  All they have to do is check with Fox News first to see what the talking points are on the subject.

When you hear a former government official states something as fact, you can rest assured that it is only partially true at best.

Of course liberals are going to believe the Libyan men before the Americans. I wonder if the Libyans waterboarded Chris Stevens before they strangled him? But here’s the real question for the leftist. Which would you choose: Being Waterboarded by Bush or Blown up by one of Obama’s drones. Bush Tortured? Obama Murders.

Joe Biden's Brain

Sep. 17, 2012, 2:48 p.m.

@David Behrel:

I have yet to hear the moral argument for vaporizing the bad guys via drone missiles.  Obviously, the media must do their job of protecting Dear Leader at all costs.

And some follow-on questions would be in order.  How many civilian casualties have there been via Obama’s drone strikes?  Won’t the bad guys use the drone strikes to recruit new bad guys?

Pretty amusing. Barack’s NY Times crowd are sanctimonious of the elimination of waterboarding. ProPublica has adeptly reported Obama has increased drone-executions many-fold when compared to ‘W’. Soooooooo we don’t water-board, we kill them!  BIG $ savings to American taxpayers Gitmo + Legal challenges; I’m-in.
Guess having someone part-your-hair with a 767 and watching civilians jumping-102-stories changes your perspective.
Eric Holder’s attempt to overlay US legal-rights to these cretins in NYC would have happened if not for the ramification of painting a blue-state red. Fortunately for us, this and so many other of our Teleprompter-In-Chief’s campaign-misreps have not been fulfilled.

David Behrel. You must have your head examined immediately. Bush/Cheney/Rumsfield killed thousands in Iraq and Afghanistan, and they displaced millions. They nearly destroyed two countries. It’s funny how history just disappears when anyone talks about the Bush years.

So, what’s your point?

I ordered the used book from Alibis for a dollar now but costs $26 dollar when it was published in 2008
“How to break a Terrorist” by Matthew Alexander.  The US interrogators who used brains, not brutality , to take down the deadliest man in Iraq—they were writing about Abu Musab Al Zarquawi .

It was a totally inspiring book.

back of the book states: “We need more talented ‘gators like Matthew ideally one siwth borad knowledge and experience in the parts of the world where they work, with fluency in local languages and dialects and with subtle understandigs of what makes people tick.—- Because if you know that, you also know what makes them talk.

I saw Matthew several times on TV and he seemed a very talented and skilled person with a sense of compassion as well.

Right now the Marines are charging an arm and a leg from the State Department to guard our embassies and consulates. That should change, we need these Marines to do it for free to learn the language while they are in such a service—our people are lazy about learning languages—we need to change that by hook or crook.

Waterboarding or other torture is just not going to get us the intelligence to avoid killing a good man like the Libyan ambassador- but speaking their language would be a start for all who guard there.

Government officials have no one forcing them to tell the public the truth. They would have never been elected if they spoke the truth.

You have to love the CIA line:

“three substantiated cases in which detainees were subjected to the waterboarding technique under the program.”

and that is their get out clause when the final truth comes out.  Substantiated by whom is the big question?  They know that the real number is higher.

It is another example of the interogation tapes that were destroyed in 2005,  First reported as “at least 2” and then being in the region of 92 when the truth came out.

David - That is not the real question.  The real question is about the “misleading” insformation being put out.  If there is nothing to hide and nothing to lie about, then why do we get fed both by the CIA and other powerbrokers (and I know both sides of the political divide do the same).

The ethical / moral arguments for or against the use of these techniques are a different from being lied to by the people we employ in Government and in other branches of the civil service (CIA, FBI, etc)

Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld in the USA are definitely guilty of crimes against humanity. Without question. Tony Blair of the United Kingdom is guilty of crimes against humanity as well. Nobody here or there is in jail or any where near a world courtroom where being tried for these crimes against human beings should take place for the entire world to see and hear. They are the elitist in this country. They are above us and the law comfortably protected by the corporate and political machine. They aren’t subject to the laws as we are.

These actions and the action of law enforcement in general is what has led us into the story below, I would suggest you get use to it and be advised it could be you next depending on your point of view.
Shhhhhh, they’re listening

Recently in the United States of America, Justin Hallman a 16 year old boy and Ron Paul supporter was questioned by the FBI because he released a video as a school project showing highlights of how America is slipping into a police state. A child has been questioned by the authorities solely because of his support for libertarian Ron Paul.

The FBI attempted to recruit Hallman to spy on Anonymous. He told Infowars, “They wanted me to be an informant, to possibly put my life in danger, to help them arrest and gain intel on occupy protesters and hackers.” The authorities also asked him about his support for Ron Paul and the Illuminati secret society.

Go to You tube and do a search for “Ron Paul There is still hope” if you’d like to see this kids video, it’s great by the way.

If we don’t make a stand against this kind of black booted thuggery in our law enforcement agencies you can rest assured the people of the United States will lose all their liberty and all their freedom and we will once again after 235 years experience an oppressive or unjustly severe government on the part of some ruler.

If this is OK with you and what you want, do nothing. It’s already here.

If death penalty isn’t better than suspened one or waterboarding, then, how you can expect -the ‘heinous crime perpitrators in disguise’ or masterplanner: criminals will admit their crimes?

In war, prisoners have traditionally been held until the cessation of hostiilities or until a prisoner swap could be worked out. The worst offending captured enemy combatants have traditionally been segregated from ‘ordinary soldiers,’ and held in special detention centers.
When commanders believed certain prisoners had information that would save the lives of their troops special interrogation methods have always been used to cause the detainee to divulge that information.
As special interrogation methods go, waterboarding is the bottom-rung on the ladder of special interrogation methods. Is waterboarding torture? I suppose the answer lies in the eye of the beholder…I was waterboarded during my Army training…it is unpleasant, and scary to anyone who doesn’t know that it’s not lethal or that it does not cause permanent injury. Being waterboarded again is certainly not anything I’d volunteer to undergo but in my book it’s not torture.
As for the accounts recently disclosed by the captured Libyan fighters, men taken in battle primarily in Iraq and secondarily in Afghanistan; men taken on fields of battle not in their homelands, in a war that was not theirs; men who are ideologically radicalized theologically-based mercenaries fighting in a country that was not theirs to defend—no sane person or group could take those accounts as truthful and at face value.
Of course the group Human Rights Watch accepts such reports as truthful and at face value, but then I said no sane person or group could accept those accounts as truthful and at face value.
All prisoners captured on the battlefield should be held until cessation of hostilities then repatriated in a dignified and proper fashion; according to tradition and military custom. And those enemies captured in battle who may hold high value information should expect to receive harsh and unpleasant interrogation methods.
In this clash of cultures only one culture can prevail. I prefer that American-Western culture be the survivor.

jcoles is the total voice of reason on this subject! The fact that we’re even debating this tells me this country’s future is bleak. Anyone who thinks Waterboarding is torture is a fool. Fools like Christopher Hitchen’s volunteered to be waterboarded, and then cried like little girls and claimed it was torture. Do you think Hitchen’s needed to have his fingernails pulled out with pliars to see if that was torture? NO! If you have to debate it, it’s not torture. My 10 year old thinks doing 10 push ups is torture.(He’s probably a future liberal) As far as Bush, Cheney, Satan, etc lying? They should have just come out and said Hell Yeah where waterboarding the crap out of these people.

Actually, you’re missing another case of “waterboarding” that hasn’t been included.  It wasn’t officially sanctioned by the CIA; in fact, it was carried out by the military.  But it occurred, nonetheless, but US forces in Iraq, and is documented in the searing book, “None of Us Were Like This Before.”  The book is well worth reading, and the information it contains ought to be updated in your report.

With what we do know regarding countries paid off by the U.S. to provide assistance to the U.S.‘s detestable and due process free practice of rendition, do the Clinton/Bush/Obama administrations seriously expect us to believe that the U.S. is directly or indirectly responsible for just three cases of water boarding and other illegal torture?

As I understand the law, a person can be prosecuted and executed for murdering just one person.  But in the U.S. apparently there is a legally recognizable magic number that abates the application of U.S. laws and treaty obligations when torture is involved.  Apparently, Obama and Bush and Clinton and their lawyers believe that number to be at least three. It always helps their case when they themselves count the numbers of tortured persons and control the administration and prosecution of the laws and treaties based on their own arithmetic.

I would add that in December this president signed a law giving the U.S. military the right to arrest any American on U.S. soil and hold them indefinitely without bringing charges or being subject in any way to recognized principles of due process.  While a wise judge recently declared the President’s law unconstitutional, the fact remains the guy signed it.  Is there any wonder that trust in government is at historical lows? 

Without trust can we remain a democracy?

Don’t challenge, Procesecute ! Put this worthless jackass IN PRISON!

gudrun quenzler scott

Sep. 18, 2012, 5:25 a.m.

Fast forward to today- we have protests in many Islam counties some of them having been preceeded by the “Arab Spring” of democracy.

At the same time we have Brian Manning sitting in isolation ( very harsh punishment) now for years in a US military prison for revealing basically war crimes of shooting unarmed bistanders from a Balck Hawk.  He was initially also accused of causing risk to life of persons cooperating with the US but in the documentary on Brian Manning just seen at Doc Channel TV, they claim that US State department was basically just embarrassed by the leaks but no risk to humans was done.

Fast forward to Romney who is insisting that Obama was apologizing to the Arabs in his Cairo speech and now after the murder of the Libyan ambassador.

Apology would be nice but has not been done by the Obama administration and I am hoping that if Obama is reelected he will be a sufficiently lame duck to get on with an affirmation of the Geneva Conference and liberate Brian Manning who has suffered long enough and even Daniel Elsberg who revealed the pentagon papers said he had to do it as plain murder was happening in Vietnam due to continual lying by the politicians.

When Obama is reelected, I also hope he will re-institute the draft as that makes these war crimes much less likely—too many unwilling will be serving and tattling on the too enthusiastic immature folks tempted to water board somebody although we all know that brain not brutality results in real progress in intelligence to arrest and punish real criminal terrorists who must be contained without ourselves beeing stained and wrecked.

Onward humanity!!!—can’t wait for a real lame duck to do the right thing.

Stephanie Palmer

Sep. 18, 2012, 6:26 a.m.

These terrorists are liars, and I’m speaking of the American terrorists, aka the Bush administration members.  What I despise most about what they did is that they did it in my name.  The voters are responsible for this, they can blame no one else.  Every society has little men trying to make themselves appear to be strong men.  These American terrorists are cowards now, were cowards then and will always be cowards. We need to atone for their abominations.

This is the same kind of reporting as always…helpless,feckless, and   meaningless. Like Abu Gharib. Show me the money.

David, are you suggesting that ProPublica and its readers are mindlessly pro-Obama?  Head over to any of the articles on drone strikes and try to find someone suggesting that it’s remotely (no pun intended) acceptable.

Some of us are against any abuse, and believe that the government does not get or deserve an “innocent until proven guilty” protection.  Get it right, hold yourself accountable, or get out of office, no matter what party sponsors your candidacy.

Also, by your support of waterboarding, can I assume that you believe that the Inquisition’s confessions of witchcraft were valid…?

Some people say “How can you tell when the right is lying?  Their lips are moving.”  Which is equally true but way funnier than what I started saying a decade or two ago:  When the right speaks, the right lies.

Which in turn is a pedantic way of saying “Gee - this story fails to surprise me.”

Although what I should have said was: 

Consider what the modern American right has demonstrated with redistricting, Voter ID, and campaign financing.  That is, consider the fact that the modern American right seizes every opportunity to legislate themselves more power - or, in the case of our courts, appoint themselves more power - every time they attain power.

Then read this article again.

Now project the modern American right’s behavior in the areas of truthfulness, transparency, rendition, indefinite detention, and torture upon an America wherein they controlled - and believed that they could maintain indefinite control of - all three branches of U.S. government. 

Would you feel safe in publicly disagreeing with their actions?

(The thing that would anger me the most if the right manages to pull off their creeping coup d’état?  A - presumably former - member of their current base protesting their surprise.  It isn’t like the transformation of the right into Stalinists has been subtle; they’re so comfortable with the progress of their effort that they’ve been known to talk about doing whatever it takes to attain more political power on camera: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-A09a_gHJc  )

Ibsteve: So everything conservatives say are just lies? What a pathetic and closed minded way to go through life! No wonder lefty’s like you are just plain ignorant. You are too pitiful and unworthy of participating in this thread.

Beyond the fact that it was experience that taught me that “When the right speaks, the right lies.” is a rule of thumb that won’t get anyone in trouble, you also have to give me credit for sticking to one screen/nickname on ProPublica rather than using multiple nicknames in order to create a false perception of general agreement with my comments.

Some, I’ve noticed, make Chris Costner Sizemore appear to be decidedly…integrated.  Perhaps they do so to validate my hypothesis about the right?

David B (ehrel)

Sep. 20, 2012, 10:54 a.m.

ibsteve: Your closed mindedness and inability at critical thought still deems you unworthy of participating in Political dialogue in a free society. You have nothing to offer. You should do fine though in the Marxist Utopia you and your ilk are about to usher in.

You do understand that you just said “If you do not think as I do then I will try to stop you from participating in America’s democracy.”?

Which, I might add, is rather a typical response from the right; one increasingly backed up with actions on your/their part such as redistricting and Voter ID laws.

You can still vote. Any idiot can do that. And it’s not that I care that you don’t “think” as I do. It’s that, based on your comments, you don’t think period.

Soon as you explain to me where those WMDs are in Iraq I’ll entertain the possibility that there are so-called “conservatives” - especially AIPAC/PNAC-ish “conservates” - who sometimes don’t lie.

By the way, “Dave”/“Dave B”/“Dave B. (ehrel)”/“dbehrel”/God (and ProPublica’s server logs) only knows what else: 

Don’t you think that you would be more effective at both insulting me and persuading the reading public of my “inability at critical thought [sic]” if you offered facts that could be substantiated by that same reading public which contradicted something that I’ve said?

Now that might be helpful all around - both in educating myself and the general public and proving that your ad hominems have some basis in reality.

No ones talking about the prisoners who died while being tortured, obviously there was another tecnique used that was more horiffic then waterboarding.
Isn’t it likely that those who died didn’t have any intel, I guess we’ll never know.
Most polititians of both parties are guilty of treason for violating their oath of office.

Oliver Nguyen

Sep. 21, 2012, 3:16 a.m.

A survey on this article has been posted to Survcast: http://survcast.com/The-Bush-Administrations-Oft-Repeated-and-Now-Challenged-Waterboarding-Claims-ProPublica - Question 2: “For many years, Bush administration officials have said that the CIA waterboarded only three terror suspects.” Who do you believe?

Click to vote and see the results.

First of all, who’s the coward that doesn’t post his full name ibsteve. Secondly, “facts” can not contradict a closed minded, ignorant generalization like “when the right speaks, the right lies.” That statement alone is all the proof you need that the writer is a fool.

One more time coward (ibsteve.) Which would you rather be subjected to:Bush’s waterboarding or Obama’s Drones? Come on! Answer the Questions!!!!!

Calm down, David Behrel (assuming that is, in fact, your real name)!!

I commented on the practice of using multiple nicknames to make multiple posts on the same article, thus creating the perception of greater public support for one’s position than actually exists.

You…digressed…into a demand that I specifically identify myself; I did not ask that of you, I do not believe it is necessary of you (even were what you use as your name-of-the-moment verifiable, which it is not), and I do not believe that it is necessary of myself or anyone else.

Further, your name-calling is tedious, at best - and it works against you, for it creates the impression that you’ve been “caught out”, you know you’ve been “caught out”, and so you’re resort to aggression as a defensive tactic.  Is that your intent?

As to your sudden switch to the subject of waterboarding vs. drone strikes…it suggests that your thinking is becoming erratic, for you bypass the question of whether the drone strikes would be necessary today if Bush had not waterboarded and so kept al Qaida and Taliban recruitment up.  Further, you bypass the question of whether the drone strikes would be necessary if Bush and the Republicans had not chosen to abandon the Afghanistan mission of get in, get OBL, and get out - choosing instead to go play in Iraq in a successful effort to manipulate the oil markets and enable enormous speculation-driven profits as well as the leveraging of near-shore oil drilling from Congress.

In fact, you make that most basic of all mistakes (to be generous):  You say “Obama’s drone strikes”, when it was Bush and the Republicans who began the drone strikes!!!

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2010/01/analysis_us_air_camp.php

http://www.longwarjournal.org/pakistan-strikes.php

Certainly the strikes continued under the new Administration - for the simple reason that attacking the command and control structure of the enemy is a standard practice of war - a practice that reduces or prevents U.S., NATO, and Afghan military as well as Afghan civilian casualties.

Curiously, I have somehow again failed to bring anything to the reader’s attention that disputes the hypothesis that when the right speaks, the right lies…although I could justifiably include the addendum “...and they insult you, too!”, I suppose.

My “switch” to the drone topic wasn’t sudden, that was my initial post at the top of the thread. Pay attention. Come up with all the excuses you want, but Obama’s drone strikes are killing innocent people. Bush’s waterboarding just got them wet. And, as mentioned above, anyone who thinks Waterboarding is torture is a fool! That is my opinion. It may be wrong, but it is an opinion. Asswipes like you call opinions you disagree with “lies.” That is plain stupid reasoning and is what leads to discussions disintegrating like this. Learn to have respect for opinions that differ from yours. You may learn something someday. In addition, you call all conservatives “Liars” and then accuse me of being a “name caller.” What a dueche-bag. So, we know you are too much of a coward to use your real name, but answer the question. Would you rather be subjected to Bush’s waterboarding or Obama’s drone strikes? If you can’t answer, then lets move on.

Hmmmm…I do believe I have to abandon the effort; it is my experience that you simply cannot persuade or educate anyone who can segue from

Your closed mindedness and inability at critical thought still deems you unworthy of participating in Political dialogue in a free society. You have nothing to offer. You should do fine though in the Marxist Utopia you and your ilk are about to usher in.

to

Asswipes like you call opinions you disagree with “lies.” [...] Learn to have respect for opinions that differ from yours.

to

In addition, you [...] accuse me of being a “name caller.” What a dueche-bag. So, we know you are too much of a coward

Your words attest to a mind trapped by its self-centered nature.

I will acknowledge and accept your capitulation. You are free to move on and offend some other group whom you disagree with. (Watch out for those drones though.Obama seems to be getting a little trigger happy.)

BTW ib, (you ibiot) Nice selective editing on my comments. You must work for MSNBC.

lollll…you need to dampen your enthusiasm occasionally, David-maybe-whatever, in favor of thoughtful consideration of what you’re about to post. 

The original comments are right here for all to read; if I was trying to Fox-up the truth, give me credit for doing it with a little more cleverness…for at least ensuring that the original content was not readily accessible and so any distortion that I attempted would be at least as difficult to detect as those distortions that are routinely propagated by the right’s media organs.

On the other hand, I am quite content to accept the blame (or credit; I suppose it is a matter of perspective) for prompting you to reveal the way a typical member of the modern American right thinks and talks when they believe that there will be no consequences - thus allowing the reader to project the way the right can be expected to act should they somehow attain power sufficient to permit them to ignore accepted moral, ethical, social, and legal restraints.

I see you have now moved into the “Baffle them with Bull Sh*” phase. Again, you started the break down in dialogue with your ignorant and offensive “When the right speaks, the right lies” comment. Then you play the incredulous card when someone calls you an asswipe for your offensive comment. I don’t think you are a liar. I do think you are an idiot (an ibiot) and an ass. That’s my opinion.

I will content myself with congratulating you on doing such an exemplary job of representing the values and character of the modern American right.

And I will content myself with congratulating you on doing such an exemplary job of representing the values and character of the modern Ibiots. You are tenacious, but if you think you’re going to have the last word, let’s go.

Jess Thrankson

Sep. 22, 2012, 9:20 p.m.

The sad irony is that after WW2 the US brought charges against several Japanese torturers who used this technique to inflict horror upon GIs. They hung for their offense. As a conscientious American who abhors double standards I think the Bush administration should answer for their crimes, but I can’t bring myself to expect hanging them. After all, even though the road to hell is paved in this sort of good intention, I don’t believe in corporal punishment. It’s that Christian weakness I suppose.

@Jess Thrankson:  I concur - and am likewise afflicted - with “that Christian weakness”.

That doesn’t preclude my wondering if justice will be served in the afterlife - perhaps, poetically, via an eternal waterboarding.

Talking about waterboarding could very well be a diversion taking attention away from the bigger picture, enhanced interrogation.

The defendants in this brutal topic of dicussion claim that no one died while using the waterboarding technique and yet from what I remember their were quite a few supposed enemy combatants who died while in custody.
We need to know more of what they mean by enhanced interrogation,
how many people died while being held captive, then give them the opportunity to convince the American that they died of natural causes.

This article is part of an ongoing investigation:
.

The Detention Dilemma

The government remains uncertain what to do with its prisoners at Guantanamo Bay.

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