John, I am not going to get into it with you.

We were not behind, if you hadn’t read the comment in full. I was paying my loan as it was signed. And you can bet the bank took care of that for us, the process tanked our relatively decent credit. We will probably never get financing again.

When you are faceing foreclosure and trying to have your loan modified in some way even if its a forebarence whitch is really help other than a band aid, it is a very frustrateing! If your twoards the end and heading to court its worse when the lawyer you have says ” the banks lawyer will win because the judges in the area are conservitive??? WTH?? You mean to say if I was before a librial judge we would have a better chance? If missing a payment or non payment this could be construed as a breach of contract…..The constitution says you have a right of a trial by jury,does any one know of any one haveing a hard time with a bank ever? For anything? How can the court find 12 people that will agree that you tried to work with your bank,they took you out of a programe that the GOVERNMENT established and now they want to throw you out because they realy dont have to work with you? Oh food for thought, if say your mortgage note is owned by say Ginnie Mae whitch is an arm per say of the government your bank/servicer ( unless your bank owns your loan) it is acctually the government whitch is sueing you. If you have Ginnie Mae as the investor and the Bank says “your investor dosent partisapate in any programes thats an out right lie from the bank its not the investor its the bank and the insurer of the loan that agree to modify most of the time! Some one some where should go directly to jail for throwing people out of their homes with out working with them….........yes Im pissed thank you

Do you know what would be really refreshing?  To hear one single person take accountability….and say…“I made some poor decisions…I took out too much money…and if I did not borrow so much money…I would not have over-leveraged my home and I might not be asking for someone else to now pay for my mistakes”. I understand unforseen events happen and life is unpredictable.  Unfortunately…not everyone can afford to “own” a home.  Note that you do not really “own” the home…hence the lender can reposses the home when you default on your agreed upon payments. Should everyone who cannot make their payments on their cars, homes, boats, etc. be able to own them for as long as they want even if they cannot make the agreed upon payments?  I hope no one here thinks the correct answer to that question is yes.  You may have been able to make payments on a house at one point in your life…but if you no longer can…should you still be able to “own” it?  According to the contract you signed…the answer is no.  I don’t think anyone can argue that they did not know that when they signed the contract.  There are millions of people who rent..and will continue to do so…home ownership is not for everyone.  I am sure most people want the American dream to raise their family in a home…but unfortunately…it is a very expensive proposition that many cannot afford.

Karen - sorry to hear that and yes thousands of people are in the same situation as you, “falcs” etc…my posts arent meant to bash anyone for asking for help but rather open peoples eyes to sense of entitlement and lack of accountability there is in this country.  If you can get a modification I say go for it - but to blame the bank when they cannot or will not help doesnt make much sense either.

I’ve helped 2 of my friends with the loan modification process and they have both suceeded in getting their loan modified.  One was Bank of America and the other was Wells Fargo (they were tough but it got done).  Who is your servicer?

Oh and as for being resposable??/ Does any one person here know the others personal sittuation? Does any one know the events in someones life that might have brought on an issue? That said please dont judge one untill you know the facts….thanks and sorry for spelling mistakes Im human not perfict

John - glad to hear you have helped some people get a mod. That puts perspective to your comments.

Of course we all have part of the blame here. Would I do the same thing if I could turn back time? No. But did I have a right to ask for a mod? Yes.

We all have the right to ask for a renegotiation. I don’t think you would argue with that.

And if you ask a question you should be braced for a “no.”

But the banks are lying, manipulating, and just plain being brutal in this process. People are being scared shitless by false threats, intimidations and the like. It would almost have been better to say “no loan mods - everyone just walk,” and it all would be over.

But then again we wouldn’t know what we know now about the depths to which Wall Street has gone to own this country. For me the “aha” moment had more to do with that than with my personal loan modification nightmare, though don’t get me wrong - I am glad I was successful.

So we play the blame game, and while we are mired here, Wall Street keeps on lobbying and keeps on making money. That is the really frightening part of this story—- our decline into a plutocracy.

Karen - sorry to hear about your family’s struggles.  I, unfortunately, do not agree with you that hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) of Americans are all in the same boat.  The restaurants are full every night; the airplanes and resorts are packed; BMW, Mercedes Benz and friends have become as common in middle-class America today as white picket fences were in the 1950s.  Flat screens, granite countertops, gym memberships… and the list goes on.  What have we learned from The Great Recession?  So many people think they are “entitled” to these things; and these are the same people who are leaving the keys in the doors of their homes and walking away.  Or - better yet - who are berating the banks and the bankers, espousing that they are “entitled” to a loan mod, and that Uncle Sam or the banks or someone other than themselves should pay for it.

I reiterate:  Accountability has been lost.  Maybe your personal situation is different, but trust me - if it is truly different, you are among a very small minority.  This is not your fault, nor is it the bank’s fault.  Your family just got a bad break.  Perhaps your loan mod is truly justified.  But a loan is a loan, a contract is a contract, and a promise is a promise.  You are at the mercy of your bank to modify your loan.  You are not “entitled” to it.  It is this nuance which I just do not think many Americans appreciate.  Anyhow, best of luck in your situation.

For those who are angry and disagree I ask you to consider this;

Why is it ok for any business to renegotiate their debt but not ok for a person with a mortgage?  Both are financial instruments that guarantee repayment for a product or service.  Why is a mortgage different?  Your thoughts could be because “it is the right thing to do”, the financial industry actions after the repel of Glass-Steigal in 1999 changed everything with regard to mortgage lending. They did not play by any rules rather made up their own financial instruments which had no rules.

A salesman sells a car to a person even though they are fully aware the engine will break in one year.  They do not care because someone else is lending the money. The buyer is not a mechanic - he believes the car salesmen who is a professional - he also figures the person lending the money should know what they are talking about also. The buyer is not a professional mechanic, so he buys the car.  Sure enough the car breaks in one year - who is at fault?  Did the car salesman “do the right thing”?  What is the investors or buyers recourse. Are you saying the old adage “buyer beware”.   

Why is it ok for the federal government to use taxpayers money in the tune of over $1T to stabilize financial market including the banks but not ok to use $35 billion to stabilize real estate values. After all both policies are designed to help in saving our economy.  The only difference between the two is that the latter is much cheaper and will have a much greater impact - but yet you protest. I guess another difference is that unlike the beneficiaries of first $1T the homeowner is not recognizing record profits. You as a homeowner that is still paying you mortgage should be 100% behind any effort to save the equity in your home. 

And not all people on this site are or have lost there homes.

CHASE SAGA - The latest sleazy tactic

- Just want to share with you, all the latest sneaky tactic by Chase

On Monday we found a “door-hanger” envelope on our front stoop (not in the mailbox, not on the doorknob, not between the storm door and front door).  It was addressed by hand, in black marker, to me.
Inside was a single 3/4 inch by 8 inch strip of paper, nothing else. The paper contained the following words [names and address changed here for privacy]: 

” 9-999999     888 Anystreet, Anytown, NN 00101 Date: MAR.

LEAVE CARD WITH ANYONE AT PROPERTY OR IN DOOR IF NOT AT HOME

To:  [My Name]

USE JPMC DOOR HANGER FROM INFOSCAPE”

There was nothing else; no other papers or cards attached; nothing requesting that we contact Chase.

Seeing the initials, “JPMC” on the bottom, I knew it was from the infamous Chase Bank.  Searching the Internet, it looks like Infoscape, which was referred to on the strip of paper, provides services such as occupancy verification for loan servicers like Chase.
Since there were no other papers or cards attached; nothing requesting that we contact Chase, I strongly suspect that this was another sleazy Chase tactic.  They leave a cryptic door-hanger but fail to leave the note or card requesting we contact Chase.  Then, if we don’t call, they can claim, falsely, that the house is unoccupied! 
Anyway, I contacted Chase and intend to follow up with a certified letter. It will be interesting to see if they acknowledge the loud barking of our dog, “JD”, inside the house, or the emptied garbage cans at the curb that had been put out that morning.  (JD, without fail, barks like crazy as soon as the mail man or UPS truck even arrives at the corner of our block!)

Any thoughts folks?  Simple mistake?  Windy day?  Sleazy tactic?  Would a big national bank resort to such tactics?  Will our locks be changed with our dog locked inside, any day now?  Will my wife or I have a coronary from this harassment?

I wonder if the other “JD”, Jamie Dimon, woke up at 4 AM worrying about paperwork left on his doorstep, as I was on Monday night.

“CHASE - THE WAY FORWARD”
Meanwhile, the AG’s have put forth a settlement proposal in which they state a requirement that the banks now follow the law. Do you think I could go rob a Chase bank, and get a settlement in court that simply states that I should now obey the law? Incredible!  And of course, the AG’s are still excluding homeowners with equity!

Scott, John, Joe, Falcs, First you should know that this recesion was cause by the housing bubble the Bnakster of walls street created, Then they Jumped and parachuted on a tax payer bail out, while leaving the homeowner to crash, in consequence people losing their jobs and not being able to pay their mortgage is thanks to them, and is why the economy went bad
Second the bankster designed these mortgage to default and then collect insurance against them (AIG) Let me repeat they were designed to default. Same as designing a beautiful car at an incredible good price and then worked under the hood so it crashes later on and then collect insurance that was bought against crashing,
Finally and most important, Banksters are well known for doing FRAUD-CLOSURES in order to collect that insurance many banks can not even prove they hold the mortgage, I m sure you guys have heard of the Banksters doing Forged notes, lost notes, intentional destruction of notes, unauthorized people signing mortgage assignments or endorsing notes, missing documentation, fraudulently fabricated documents, different plaintiffs foreclosing on the same property, plaintiffs who do not exist, illegally breaking in to homes and the inability or refusal to provide proof of purchase and/or ownership of the promissory notes.FORGERY, FILING FALSE DOCUMENTS INTO GOVERNMENT RECORDS, EXTORTION, ABUSE OF PROCESS, FRAUD ON THE COURTS, and countless others of CRIMINAL VIOLATIONS
So Karen is right when she asks
WHY HAVEN’T ANY EXECUTIVES THAT CAUSED THE ECONOMIC CRISIS GONE TO JAIL?????????

John breach of contract goes both ways, the Banksters breach the contracts when they broke those contract in to many pieces, package them, sold them to many, and destroy the original note

Complaints to the HOPE hotline are for sure underreported.  The operator refused to take my complaint and steered me into another USELESS session with a financial counselor instead.

“acmodspecialist” - your name alone clearly defines your intentions on this site - no reason to argue with you…but again, please remember borrowers also signed a PROMISSORY note stating their loan application was true and correct.  Blaming only the banks is complete nonsense…but if it makes you feel better then go for it…

nice chatting with all of you…have a great day and good luck in your future endeavors.

JS - I got one of those too some time ago. It is someone checking to see that the house is occupied. I don’t know what the best thing to do is, but my advice would be to send a fax or e-mail to Chase and acknowledge that you saw the cryptic note on your door and yes indeed the house is occupied. You could call if you have someone at chase in particular to call, but if you are like me it was always just “whoever” on the other end of the line, so I ended up writing everything so that I had a paper trail.

Good luck.

The only way out of this mess is for the government to stay out of it.  Let home prices fall to where they should be.  Stop delaying the inevitable.  The cost of housing is unsustainable for many americans.  The average house should be between 2 or 3 times your average income.  Nowadays probably closer to 2 based on outrageous real estate taxes.  Why do people think you can support a house thats 5 or 6 times your income.  You can’t!  Not if you have to pay property tax and save for retirement and pay medical insurance and send your kids to college and pay for cable and cell phones and internet access and crazy gas prices, etc etc etc.  My dad made 25,000 a year and bought a house for about the same.  The company he worked for gave him a pension and health insurance. His property taxes were 600 a year and mortgage payment was 250.  I make three times what he made but my house cost 250,000 my property taxes are 6000 a year i sock money in a 401k cause I get no pension.  I pay 400 a month for health insurance.  So even though hemade a third of what I make.  He had significantly more disposable income.  My point is the average american is making more money but his expenses are growing much faster than his income.  This is just the tip of the iceberg I think.  It will only get worse.

This is to the other “john”,When one goes to get a mortgage do they go to the bank and ask for hundreas of thousands or do they go to a “broker”? seeing how you told the other guy good bye Im guessing your gone but hopefully you will see this.How many “brokers"infalted incomes for people to get a loan and walk away with his doe never to have to worry about if it works or not and not careing if the customer read every thing in the caontract ar if the cusomer noticed that the income was iflated

WAIT—-John—-don’t go—-I have one more question for you:

The bank LOST my ORIGINAL PROMISSORY NOTE…now what?

BarbaraC:

Thanks.  Yes, I already called Chase and intend to follow up with a certified letter.

Did your notification contain anything sensible, like a specific request to contact the bank, or any kind of an explanation?

Clearly the “bleeding hearts” among this chat are blinded by their emotions; but then again, that’s characteristic of them as a group anyway.  The funny part about them is they whine and moan and cry and in the end, contribute little and get nothing productive accomplished.  Rational thinkers aren’t blinded by feelings and emotions.  You want to put everyone in jail because (A) the media - the beacon of all wisdom - spoon feeds you this and (B) it makes you feel better.

Karen - to answer your question posed to the rational John - as a legal matter, you made a promise.  Of course, you thoroughly read your mortgage documents and disclosures when you took out your mortgage loan, so you must know that you agreed that if the bank ever needed to show proof of the existance of the Note, that you would cooperate with them in putting a replacement document in place.

John and all the other Johns here - I get it!! you gambled (probably with your 401K) and lost too!!  Well, the casino boys gambled with your money. The people here did not. They sold the packages to Pension Fund trusts too.  The gambling winnings from the loses came from the Scotts who took advantage of low interest arm rates, walked away and moved on.  And oh, by the way, the casino bosses made sure their boys will be in charge of our treasure for years to come.  These boys create and implemente policy.  These boys include Ruben, Paulson, Larry Summers, Geithner (who did not pay taxes on the fortune he made along everyone else in the casino) and others less heard of.  The voice that was ignored was Paul Volker’s and even that of a man from the shadows of an elderly crowd but who goes back to the Reagan years:  remember his Troyan Horse?  well, he still makes sense today.

The bail-out for the gambles (that includes the banks who also have contracts that they broke) caused the lost their savings, their jobs, their dream to the people that post here;  they worked hard to build all along the equity that took many years to put together.  They have families; but one or both lost their jobs; and while waiting for a corrupt and fraudulent offer to help renegotiate their mortgages, the banks who broke the depositors contract and trust, gave them hope until their (investor’s) clients run out of their reserves.  That is when they jumped in fast an took their houses away or are about to through the biggest foreclosure fraud ever concocted.

John…..first of all, NOT EVERYONE signed their mortgage anticipating that they would (1) lose their job (2) have major medical expenses, (3) etc.  When I signed my mortgage (and I did NOT lie on any of the paperwork), I was working, making good money, and paid my payment on time for 3 years.  Then, without any notice, I lost one of my 2 jobs, which meant we had less money coming in each month.  We continued to pay our mortgage, but we went to ASC and asked for a loan modification, which after a year of constantly faxing in paperwork over and over again, we were able to get (they actually did not modifiy our loan; they refinanced it at a lower interest rate).  What you don’t seem to understand is that not EVERYONE signed their mortgage falsely…..things happen that are unforeseen.  What you can afford now may, for some major reason, not be affordable a couple of years down the line…..unless you’re a mind reader, you can’t tell the future. 

I applaud the fact that you paid your mortgage one time and didn’t have to try to get a loan modification…..I’d be interested in knowing if you lost your job or had any major medical expenses come up since you first signed your mortage paperwork (I doubt it sincerely).  So, before you start making inane comments about others who are NOT in the same boat as you are and who DID everything correctly when they signed their mortgage papers, and who DID NOT expect this to happen to them, you might want to have some compassion!  But, I guess that would be asking too much, wouldn’t it?

Did - did you read my other posts before going on your emotional rant??  Take a deep breath and relax - I’m not here to attack anyone - just arguing the other side to all of this.  See my older post below to Karen.  Better yet I believe “Falcs” had another good post about true hardships and people that are taking advantage of the system.

“Karen - sorry to hear that and yes thousands of people are in the same situation as you, “falcs” etc…my posts arent meant to bash anyone for asking for help but rather open peoples eyes to sense of entitlement and lack of accountability there is in this country.  If you can get a modification I say go for it - but to blame the bank when they cannot or will not help doesnt make much sense either.

I’ve helped 2 of my friends with the loan modification process and they have both suceeded in getting their loan modified.  One was Bank of America and the other was Wells Fargo (they were tough but it got done).  Who is your servicer? ”

FALCS:  Why do you ASSUME that everyone lied on their paperwork when they applied for a mortgage.  Not everyone does that, you know?  People sign up for mortgages without knowing what’s going to happen in the future, and as I said earlier, unless you’re a fortune teller, you DON’T know what’s going to happen.  You try to get a mortgage for an amount that you can afford, you assume that you will always be able to make that payment; then POOF, you lose your job or you become critically ill, or you have a major accident that disables you…..then what happens.  You, as an honest person, did not LIE when you signed the mortgage paperwork…your fully intended to pay the mortgage on time….but sh….t happens, you know?  Apparently, you are one very uncompassionate individual because you seem to want to “lump” everyone into the same mold….we don’t ALL lie, we don’t ALL sign paperwork for loans that we don’t intend to pay, and we don’t ALL plan on losing our homes, our jobs, our livelihoods, etc.  So, unless you’ve been in our shoes, you need to stop pontificating, okay?

Falco - you appear to only pick and choose what post you respond to.  I tried with my car salesman analogy to make it as simple as possible for you.  Other post have also tried to explain to you in the most simplest terms - avoiding the complexities of the issue’s in hope that people like you will get the picture.

These positions do not come from the media because they do not have a clue what is going on. Please do yourself a favor and stop displaying your ignorance in this subject matter.

This is an excellent article that summarizes the HAMP program. I had been wondering how this program was working, and now I know.

I am very disappointed in the hateful comments posted here. This mortgage mess has ruined our country. Those of you who insist on ridiculing and blaming hundreds of thousands of homeowners for being duped into fraudulent loans should be ashamed. What is wrong with you? Don’t you have any compassion for people less fortunate or less knowledgable than you?

Others here are asking legitimate questions and trying to help one another, and that’s good to see. Barbara has given good advice to a couple of people, and so have Acmodspecialists and others. In times like this, it’s nice to know there are still some good people we can trust to help their neighbors and fellow readers.

Didi - pls read the prior posts thoroughly.  I already acknowleged to Karen that there are cases where innocent people just got swept up in it all.  They lost jobs, etc.  But I also noted that in my experience, that group has been the minority.  If you, like Karen, are in that group, I am sorry and wish you the best.  I will keep you in my prayers.  If you and Karen were in fact the majority, we’d have a very different situation on our hands here in the U.S.  But, rather, what we have here is a majority of people trying to game the system.  No accountability.  No conscience.  The fact that some bankers, brokers, appraisers, realtors, etc. have no consciences does not justify the irresponsibility of the masses that signed their contracts and made their promises.  Again, if you aren’t in that group, good for you.  Sorry you got swept up in it.  I have not lost a job since graduating from school, but I grew up in a household where my dad did.  And my dad had to take whatever he could find, and my mom went out and got 2 jobs, and I - then 15 years old - pitched in at home, worked after school, and still graduated Valedictorian of my high school in the end.  I know about giving stuff up and working hard to make it all work.  And I’m quite compassionate for those who are deserving of my compassion; but not for greedy, selfish liars.  I can only pray for those people; but I’m certainly not going to sanction their behavior.

Debra - no hateful comments - just trying to shed a bit more light on the situation…people are very ignorant and dont take responsibility for their actions - especially when they make comments like “being duped into fraudulent loans “.  There are true hardships out there but for the most part people are gaming the system and hurting home values even more…and thats the governments fault unfortunatley

Steve - you’ve violated the rules of engagement by attacking me personally and not my arguments.  Nice job.  I am not wasting my time responding to your posts and suggest that you leave this chat.  Enjoy your day!

—Falcs

I asked earlier…with zero response….has anyone here actually admitted they borrowed too much money?  That is the root of the problem.  Had you not borrowed 80% or more against the value of your home…you would likely be able to sell it without taking a loss. Did anyone on here take out a second mortgage?  Does anyone here feel that leveraging something at 80% or above is a bad idea?  I thought about doing both…but I did not…why…because it is very risky and I would have to pay all the money back.  I thinking it is safe to assume most people thought real estate values would increase, and your equity would increase.  Do you know anyone who re-fi’ed and took out more money to buy material objects with?  I doubt there are too many folks on here with 50% LTV’s…maybe that guy Falcs or John.  I am going to take a guess and say most of the other people arguing borrowed too much money.

John, thanks for making my point for me. I’m sad that you feel that way. There is help available, if you’re so inclined.

We can go all year long arguing about who is at fault. At the end of the day, each individual has a different situation and one size doesn’t fit all. I am astonished at how many people have been abused in the name of modification. For those who think it is wrong to expect a modification, Is the Mortgage Bankers Association right to walk away from there mortgage? Are the investors right to demand a buy back of the trash securities? The sooner we come to grips that whatever we do in this country is based on money and money alone, the better it would be. I would not dignify the bank with the opportunity to con me in the guise of a modification. I told them if they cannot make it permanent then they can take the house no problem. It has been 20 months and they still haven’t foreclosed. I had mailed a set of keys while packing to move out but they mailed it back. No offense, but for me it became purely business when entities held in high regard were ditching investments at the same time telling me it is morally incorrect. Guess I am immoral then, and loving it…..

i am one of the lucky few who was given a permanent loan mod in august of 2009. i have been a prime borrower all of my adult life and paid every penny of car, business, home and credit loans back on time. never late once. 10 years ago i put all of my hard earned money down to buy a triplex that i still live and work in. it has not been easy and my initial loan was so egregious that it had a spiraling financial impact (that i’m still digging myself out of) until i was finally able to re-finance out of it. IndyMac was my 1st lender, my 2nd Citi. here’s the catch…..my place was never worth what i purchased it for. i found out years later that the original appraiser who’d been asked to do the appraisal valued it at $200k less than the asking price. when he refused to inflate the appraisal my agent fired him even though he warned her that she was committing fraud and that if any lender were to accept another inflated appraisal i would most likely be getting a “very bad loan”. well guess what? he was right. so the agent, appraiser, broker made their commissions, the lender got me to pay 10.8% on a note that they sold off to who knows who and i got saddled with a loan that is more than the assessed value of $795 (2010).  i have calculated over the last 10 years that i have paid $780k on 2 mortgages. so am i a “loser” for getting a modification? am i a socialist? a whiner?  yes, i signed an agreement to pay back this loan but i did so under the assumption that the appraisal was not fraudulent. most of us do not have an attorney on retainer so we take it for granted that all of these legal documents that are compiled during the purchasing process are there for a reason. to protect the consumer. but i was wrong, it was to protect everyone else BUT the consumer. i am still trying to get my 2nd modified but that has proven to be almost impossible. i encourage all of you who are still trying to keep trying and not listen to these the bullies above who are trying to make you think you did something wrong. i doubt they are very happy anyways.

Here is the Report to the American People by the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission of December 2010. You will not see this in the Wall Street Journal.

Go to the fcic website and read the 14 page conclusions of the Commission. It can be downloaded for free. The FCIC concluded the Housing Crisis did NOT have to happen and could have been prevented. The four dissenters, all Republican, deny Wall Street did anything wrong and one said “It was NOT the Predatory banks” (like the report says), he says “it was the PREDATORY BORROWERS” that caused the crisis., YOU the homeowner caused the mortgage part of the crisis. You can email that guy, His email is in the report, he is a Wall Street guy. You can download the book for free at the website or buy it for $8 from Amazon dot com.

http://www.fcic.gov - read 14 page conclusion.

Hang in there, don’t fall for the sucker bait of the banks.

By pass the banks and go a Credit Union and do a refinance and do NOT take a new mortgage that is “tossed over the fence” to a bank.

Hope this helps someone.

2 Forebearance plans and pressure from a HUD agency, the OCC and the AG office: this time: a mod trial….I am still not buying it.

What I was to know, is, if this mod does become permanant, why is it that the bank ( Chase) is allowed to:

Tell me that if i pay they won’t help me
Tell me that I am pre qualified when I was not
Deny me for Income/espense reasons when THEY reduced my income stated, tho proven, on my app, AND increased my expenses: All without explanation.
Tell me that even if I met the income/expense guidlines I would fail the LTV test. ( When I have significant equity in my home)
Take weeks to return calls and submit app in a timely manner….

So now, if the trial becomes permanant, they will eat up the equity in my home by adding all missed payments ( possibly less late fees) putting me in a bad situation due to their NEGLIGENCE?

Is there anything I can do?? Thank you!

Falcs - You are right about the attack. It is unlike me to do that but after repeated attempts’ by a few people you continue to tout the sanctity of the “contract” and how only one party – the buyer must abide by those terms.  I do not think anyone here that is in trouble does not understand their part in this situation. You fail to consider the post addressing the illegal actions by the second party to the contract.  You fail to address the post with regard of the standard practice of renegotiating a debt which is done everyday in business. Instead you are addressing the overindulgence of American society on a whole for the past twenty years with which I agree.

There are two parties to every contract – may I ask why there are hundreds of billions in lawsuits either filed or being files by private label investors against originators for “buybacks”.  May I ask why major investors like some of the banks and Fannie and Freddie are demanding buyback from originators?  The reason is because the originators sold a bad product to the consumer in many cases.  That there was poor underwriting and that loan should have never been given no less packed into a AAA security. According to your logic all these investors should just take responsibility for purchasing these pools because they agreed to the contract, what right do they have to request recourse.

You also fail to address from a business point of view the overall strategy to stabilize real estate values by reducing below market inventory – supply and demand.

You or someone else argue the point; why people paying their mortgage have to bailout those who are irresponsible.  If you are a homeowner and have a mortgage may I ask if you deduct your mortgage interest payment and property taxes each year? In case you are not aware of the number it comes out to $80b annually.  If you are a renter you should be equally as angry over that situation.  HAMP $35 billion over 5 years designed to stabilize real estate values for every home – interest and taxes deduction $80 billion annually designed to spur consumerism that creates job and homeownership.

I know you do not feel my comments or others worthy of your response but just some thoughts for you to consider when blasting the irresponsible.

I have worked for the past two years not to place blame but to find solution and fix the problems that exist so this country can survive. We are running out of time and options.

Karen, your situation is very unfortunate and must be very difficult.  You are right, many people are struggling in this economy and are having a hard time finding work.  The problem is too many people are blaming those struggles on mortgage comanies.  While there may be some validity to that, mortgage companies can’t be held completely responsible for that.  They can’t control the fact that you have lost income and are struggling to make ends meet.  Can they lower your payments to help?  Maybe.  The reason I say maybe is because mortgage companies have an obligation to the “securities” of which most mortgages are a part to limit losses.  Modifications may represent a significant loss to that security, which impacts investors, which impacts the market, which impacts others besides you.  So banks are in a no win situation.  Of course your argument will be that banking executives are getting rich.  What executive of any industry for that matter isn’t getting rich?  Any high up executive of any profitable corporation is getting “rich.”  You want to place blame on someone, blame those who are making it difficult to find employment (that being the government).  Until the government quits allowing companies to outsource jobs to other countries without any kind of penalty…until they do something about our rising energy prices, we can expect that our economy will continue to be difficult…and the blame for that can’t be placed fully on banks.

Okay I’ve skimmed all of these since my last post.

Folks - the blame game between us has got to stop.

But the “game” played by Wall Street, the Kochs and the plutocrats is really what is running this nightmare.

As long as we keep fighting each other, they keep making deals that wipe us clean. Are you ready for another bank bailout? The last one was pushed through without a blink or a nod to the taxpayers’ whose money funded the bailout. How can this be okay, but an individual trying to get a loan mod not be okay?

Much of the rationale here tends to forget that we had and have every right to expect “help” from the banks since they were helped by the taxpayer. Every right.

The Regulators are circling the Servicing Banks with Fines in hand.

I went through HAMP with Wells Fargo, They lied, gave mis-information, withheld full amount mortgage payments (four months worth of full mortgage payments in 12 months, they did not send to the lender Fannie Mae). They dinged my mortgage credit “NOT OK” that would prevent me from going to another lender (I did not allow them to sucker me into NOT full payments with trial payments and forbearance and they still dinged my credit). The Forbearance scam is nothing more than a money maker for Wells Fargo with NO DISCLOSURE of fees or interest and you lose the protection of a grace period that comes along with a regular mortgage (remember, they suckered you into a lower payment). When I added up the numbers, the six months of half mortgage payments, the Seventh month Balloon payment was the missing six months, plus the full mortgage payment of the mortgage, PLUS 33% INTEREST EQUAL TO A FULL MONTH OF MORTGAGE PAYMENT.
In other words, in Seven months, you would pay Eight months of full mortgage payments. NO DISCLOSURE telling you it was a 33% interest rate over a 6 month period.
I was disqualified for HAMP, 3 weeks after I sent in the information, and the bank knew it (I found out from another bank employee I had immediately been denied), but when I called the Loss Mitigation department, they said “Oh, you are still being considered and will be notified in 45 to 60 working days” - still in the running for a mod).

Monthly calls, the same thing except they needed to have my updated assets sent in right away after the first of the year, payroll stubs, w2,‘s 401K’s, and IRA’s
. Sure enough, I received a letter about Five months after I sent in the HAMP information I was DENIED HAMP or any other refinance offer.

The choices Wells Fargo gave me was”
” Deed in lieu of “(they would steal my house and its equity)
or a Shortsale.

Wells Fargo testified to Congress that they lose money in a shortsale or foreclosure, and if that was true, in the first two quarters of 2010, Wells Fargo made $5.2 Billion in PROFIT. They lie, through omission, not telling Congress about the insurance payment from the FDIC via the FED $1.4 trillion.

The banks are making money and lots of it when you lose your home. The 25 year olds at the bank you deal with are trained to say otherwise

Is your house Underwater? Had it lost 30 or 40% of its value below the cost of building the home?

Seems part of TARP (if you believe that plan was put together in 30 days with Poulson and Bush, think again, this was a well thought out plan with systematic items that needed to be put in place to get the equity of homeowners), is really part of a $13 Trillion Bailout fund that is being held in Secret from the American People by the Federal Reserve..

Google Need to Know Bloomberg to see the lawsuit

The Appraisers, you know those guys, they evaluate your home value for a loan or refinancing. Wonder why you home dropped 40% in one year below the cost to build?

Well seems part of the TARP, the banks became the funnel of the Appraisers fees. Prior to TARP, appraisers were paid $350 in our area for an appraisal directly. After TARP, the appraisal fee went up to $500, the appraiser still got $350 but the Banks got $150, who were controlling the HOLDING COMPANIES OF APPRAISERS and were telling the appraisers, HOW TO APPRAISE, in other words LOW BALL the value of your house so you could not refinance at a lower interest rate.

So, you are locked into the high interest of the ARM because your home is “Underwater” by bank dictated appraisals, you take a forbearance and pay 33% interest for a six month loan with a HUGE Lump sum payment due and ONE DAY late foreclosure starts, and if you apply for HAMP, you are lied to and put at more risk and have a 75% chance of being turned down and your credit is dinged so you are locked into those high interest rate headed to foreclosure or shortsale the banks want..

The banks make money (hundreds of thousands) if they can force you into shortsales or foreclosures. How else did Wells Fargo make $5.2 Billion the first two quarters of 2010 while processing thousands of foreclosures?

Heinous comes to mind.

So, if you are not Outraged, you are not paying attention.

DO NOT BEAT YOURSELF UP, go see your Congressman and Beat him or her up. The laws that should have protected you were ignored and Congress did and is doing nothing….maybe..

Google “Mortgage Industry Could Face Massive Changes Huffington”

Google “think big work small one west” to see how banks make money in foreclsoure. The FDIC disputes this, but weakly.

For those who care and want to try and fix HAMP you only have until 7 PM EST to call the members as suggested in our SAVE….OUR…HOME effort.  The House Financial Services Committee is voting at 7 PM. 

The alternative plan by the Republicans is nothing.  All decisions will be given to the servicers with no oversight but Treasury.

I would hope people would follow the instructions and call right now.  aahmp.blogspot.com/2011/03/save-our-homes-soh-call-to-action.html

John Boehner just sent me an email.

I wonder if he is referring to HAMP (HAMP is part of TARP) 44 loans?

This week the House will begin the process of shutting down the TARP bailout program, saving taxpayers $8 billion in “mandatory” government spending.  The Obama Administration originally predicted this program would help anywhere from 500,000 to 1.5 million homeowners refinance underwater loans – but to date, only 44 loans have been refinanced.  The program is costly and ineffective.  The House will vote to protect taxpayers and shut it down.

Last November, the American people spoke loudly and clearly.  We were listening then, and we are listening now. 

Sincerely,

John Boehner

He is referencing FHA Short Sale program not HAMP.

Really like your numbers ProPublica. Actually I can’t wait to see the last article. However are there any numbers as to the percent approved by HAMP as according to race? I seem to recall putting my race on the mortgage application and the government is always interested in race for any number of things. Would love to see these numbers because as stated with all loans denial by race is against the law.

John, Joe, Tiredof, Falcs:

Clearly you (collective) haven’t followed this expose on Propublica or you would know the extent of the crimes that Karen and Barbara are referring to. They probably figure that people posting here are already knowledgeable on this topic.

There have been multiple investigative hearings in Congress on the CAUSE of the economic collapse, exposing the level of fraud and crimes by the banksters and Wall street.  They are also well documented on their websites. There are literally hundreds (900 for one days worth of hearings alone) of internal bank documents, emails, testimony, etc. backing it up.  Sadly, there are still people like you who want to blame all of this on a few unfortunate homeowners.  Let’s hear you defend the criminals who caused all this mess instead of trying to water it down by saying they ALL were guilty.

For example:

Wamu paid their mortgage reps the highest commissions for selling innocent first time homebuyers the riskiest crap loans.  The rep wanted the high commission, and could have sold more conventional loans in many instances, but didn’t because he wanted his cut of the big easy money too.  In most instances, it was the reps who falsified the ‘income’ on the loan application (which was stated as a NO-DOC loan to the borrower), so these same first time borrowers were often not guilty of lying about their income, as people with your limited amount of information on this topic like to claim.  (must give you that sense of superiority you all exude so well)  By the way, this practice is usually referred to as PREDATORY lending!

Wamu didn’t give a crap about the loan risks, because what they didn’t tell the unsuspecting borrower was that their ‘loan’ was already sliced and diced and sold to an investment trust, so if the ‘loan’ went belly up downstream, they weren’t on the hook, the ‘investors’ were!  In many cases, the funds from these ‘investors’ were wired directly into the escrow accounts, and Wamu never even put up a penny to fund the loan.  (where was THAT disclosure?)  So not only did these crooks defraud the naive borrowers - they screwed the investors on the other side.  And that is where the real lawsuits are going to be coming from in the future.  Most of those investors (pension plans, retirement funds etc) lost huge amounts of money and when they thought they owned the mortgages, it turns out the same banks - Wamu, in this illustration - didn’t properly and legally document or record the transaction, which would have proven ownership by the investors. Not to mention the issues related to clear title, as well as ownership that this has created. So they screwed both the borrowers and the investors.

And I haven’t even touched on the fact that internally Wamu had already done their own assessments of the viability of these risky loans, and discovered none of them even held up to their own internal standards.  So what did they do then? Sold them anyway but neglected to mention they were crap!  Buried them in with other less risky loans and passed the whole package off as Triple A rated. They LIED and DEFRAUDED the investors! 

Nor have I mentioned that the banksters and Wall Street geniusus who cooked all this up, were busy getting filthy rich by .. BETTING AGAINST the borrowers!  They made money on Wall street hand over fist (billions!) betting that these borrowers would default.  Sounds crazy, doesn’t it.

Now let’s go back to the naive, first time buyer with no experience at this.  They have been urged by President Bush to go out and invest in home ownership!  Told the economy is great…safe, blah, blah blah.  They take him at his word.  The take the loan rep at this word.  When they expressed concern about what if I have trouble down stream with their payments?  Oh no worries!  Just refinance, Mr. Crooked Loan rep says!  Everyone else is doing it!  Properties are going up, up up!  Sounds pretty believable to Mr. and Mrs. First Timer who think they have their first shot at the American Dream!  After all, they did look around, and everywhere properties were going up, and people they knew were refinancing and taking cash out, so why couldn’t they? It sounded reasonable.

Only when the crooks plans went belly up and the economy CRASHED - people started losing jobs.  Massive job losses.  Property values plummeted 40% and in some states even more.  Investments in mutual funds and pension plans plummeted, and people across America lost their savings ‘cushion’ for that rainy day. These first timers now had a mortgage worth more than their property, and might even have lost their job too.  The ridiculousness of your argument is that they should have ANTICIPATED all this!  Honestly…

This economic disaster was caused by the greedy and corrupt banks, not by homeowners.  This was no ordinary market fluctuation where properties go up…and sometimes down.  If you don’t know the difference then you should not be pontificating here.  The factors that caused millions of Americans into foreclosure were brought about by CRIME…on a massive scale! 

Still, some of you are comparing your situation to this, and it is very annoying to the educated people here who already understand this complex and underreported story.  You either don’t understand it, or you haven’t even really bothered to educate yourself.  I would recommend you go to the docs and read them for yourself.  No spin there.  Real, criminal activity there for anyone to read who cares to learn the truth.

Otherwise, if you DO know it and still want to blame some poor unfortunate borrower who simply trusted the mortgage lender, the bank, the government, in the rule of law, and never foresaw the scam they were being sold, or the collapse of the economy, you must be one of the banksters trying to perpetrate this story line and blame it all on the lowly homeowners….because they signed the contract.  What about the rampant violations of TILA, RESPA and fair consumer protection laws that these banksters have violated?  Why aren’t you pointing your fingers at them? 

You have had ample opportunity to argue the points that others have pointed out, yet you all keep harping on the same tired old ...and in this case… irrelevant arguments about the contract.  Try addressing the massive scale of this fraud and the TRILLIONS of dollars in losses they caused, compared to the tiny number of people who actually intentionally took out loans they couldn’t afford.

(continued)

And the final point you are missing - is that no one here is asking for a handout.  The HAMP plan is not a handout.  Loan modifications are simply refinancing the terms of your original agreement.  You are only adjusting the interest and loan duration to reduce the amount of the monthly payment.  This is not the same as reducing the amount of your debt.  I suspect you may need to get educated about this too.  All a loan modification does is make the monthly payment lower for people suffering hardships due to these economic factors brought on by…the Banksters. The payment is lowered, only temporarily before it starts adjusting upwards over time, but the terms of the mortgage are extended, so the banks aren’t giving up or losing anything either.  Most often they are collecting interest for an additional ten years.  If they weren’t so greedy, it is a win-win situation.

People who went into this looking to get something for nothing wouldn’t bother with a loan modification anyway.  They would have simply walked away.  In any case, the number of borrowers who did that pales in comparison to the number of people who got rich off the people they victimized.  Also, homeowners who are desperately trying to get loan modifications want to keep their homes and continue to make their payments.  Is that your idea of a deadbeat who is looking for a handout?

Give me one GOOD reason the banks shouldn’t share in the economic losses that they themselves caused? Remember we are talking TRILLIONS of lost dollars and years before this situation will be back to normal, not to mention they got a pass by taxpayers bailing their sorry asses out of this situation!  But if you understood all of this, you would also know they didn’t just burn the unsuspecting borrowers.  They burned you too.

Why are you so narrow minded that you can only blame the victims?  Jamie, c’mon….is that really you????

I work in management at one of the mortgage servicers listed in this article (no, not Bank of America).  I really wish someone would accurately portray the REASON that servicers are having problems with the HAMP program.  And if you question anything of this information, feel free to look it up by doing a simple search in the internet. The HAMP program rolled out in early 2009.  Since then, the government has released at least 20 updates/revisions to the HAMP program.  Each of those updated (called Supplemental Directives) force servicers to change they way they run the program.  Some of you wonder why people have been on a trial program for such a long time, well, that’s why.  It’s the government that forces servicers to “extend” the trial periods so that all of their various revisions and requirements can be implemented.

As far as why so many people get kicked off of trial plans, why doesn’t anyone mention that mortgage servicers are required to run every request through the government’s NPV test.  That test tells a servicer if it is more beneficial for them to do the modification or proceed with foreclosure.  If foreclosure is more beneficial, it is the government that says that case doesn’t qualify for a modification, not the mortgage servicer.  The government will not allow the servicer to proceed with the HAMP modification at that point.

The main reason for HAMP’s failures is due to the government trying to dictate every single little detail on how the program should be ran, and then making constant changes to it.  The company I work for only requires a written request for a modifiation and proof of the last month’s household income in order to make a decision on a modification.  However, the government insisted on making servicers gather a boat load of documents before they could make a decision on HAMP.  No wonder some servicers misplace documents.  That probably wouldn’t happen as much if they weren’t required to collect so much information from each applicant.

It may be true that some servicers haven’t done a very good job but the blame here needs to be given to the government.  If they simply gave incentives to do modifications to a pre-determined affordable payment without trying to dictate every single step of the process, there would probably be more modifications done.  Even this article points out that the level of modifications being done are the same as they were pre-HAMP.  That is the truth.  HAMP has done nothing but slow servicers down, and for that, you can thank good old President Obama and other House Democrates.

I am not sure why this not post the first time but; The House Financial Services Committee just voted to end HAMP.

The vote sends a clear signal to the servicing industry that they have nothing to fear from the US Congress For those that thought HAMP was a scam from the start you have your wish to leave this problem in the hands of the servicers and banks.  They are now free to do with what they wish when it comes to modifications.

BofA stock is up 5% since yesterday.

Steve-

Please tell me what this means re: those of us who are currently in a HAMP trial period? Can I kiss my house goodbye?

Steve, you will probably see more modifications now that servicers can do them without having to jump through all of the government’s hoops.  Most servicers understand the message given to the industry that more modifications are needed, and they will now be able to do them more effectively.  Your comment that servicers have nothing to fear is not correct.  Regulators in all states watch their efforts very closely so I guarantee that you will see modifications on the rise.