Journalism in the Public Interest

Obama Administration Considers Bypassing Congress on Immigration Reform

Leaked memo shows that the Obama administration is considering bypassing Congress to get immigration reforms that would give permanent resident status to tens of thousands of people currently in the country illegally.

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July 30, 2010, 2:51 p.m.

**sigh**  This is totally hopeless.  It would be easier to have a rational discussion in Mecca on the existence of God, or debate in South Bend benefits of attending University of Southern California than to have a meaningful discussion here.  And almost NO ONE gets the true point of this story.  Create a poll with pie-in-the-sky conditions and then cite those numbers as evidence.

105% OF AMERICANS POLLED SAID THEY WOULD SUPPORT AMNESTY IF EVERY ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT PAID $1,000,000 AND AGREED TO ARTIFICIAL STERILIZATION.  The numbers would be higher if more people realized the could vote more than once.

Oh wait, let’s cite some Right Wing / Left Wing web site as proof of our position.

The Republic of the United States of America is no more.  Long live the Empire.  The law and Constitution have been “reinterpreted”.

Sam Nicolosi

July 30, 2010, 2:51 p.m.

@Brian, who said: “

Obama takes a certain action.
Republicans strongly object.
Democrats say, “Well, Bush did it”.

Inference; when Bush did it it was wrong.

So, when Obama does it, it is right?...”


The correct inference follows:

“When Bush did it, you didn’t raise any objection, so it must have been AN OKAY THING to do, RIGHT?

After all,
You are not the sort of person who would
TURN A BLIND EYE eye to something WRONG, just because it was YOUR GUY doing it…

That is the CORRECT inference!


July 30, 2010, 2:53 p.m.

105% OF AMERICANS POLLED SAID THEY WOULD SUPPORT AMNESTY IF EVERY ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT PAID $1,000,000 AND AGREED TO ARTIFICIAL STERILIZATION.  The numbers would be higher if more people realized the could vote more than once.

Where can I find that poll, nitwit?


July 30, 2010, 2:55 p.m.

Actually Maria I don’t think that SamJr could migrate to Mexico their immigration laws are too tight. And as far as taking responsibility for the betterment of one’s country.  The US was every lawless at one time also but its citizens decided to change that.  And if you look at the US and Mexico they both evloved (as nations) around the same time frame.  Why did the US go one way and Mexico another.  Mexico is not a barren country it has natural resources just as the US andif not it certainly has the ability to be an industrial (manufacturing) country.


July 30, 2010, 3:02 p.m.

Nathan and Maria - I think you both miss the point. Our federal government needs “only” to begin forcefully to enforce existing laws and the biggest part of the illegal immigrant problem would solve itself. Were potential employers actually verifying the legal status of all potential employees and turning the illegals away, they would have no choice but to eventually return home. No job? No home, no care and no property (no money to pay).  Sorry Maria, I also make many mistakes. I also take my lumps and pay the consequences. In the case of illegal immigrants the consequence is supposed to be immediate deportation. Yes, the president may have the legal authority to make modifications to current law. That does not give him the moral authority to screw the rest of America by providing millions of illegals instant access to free education, free medical care and welfare. They have not paid into the system - 95% of them anyway. Those that have paid into the system have also done that illegally! They had no right to a Social Security card. Sorry Maria. I am not interested in becoming the president of Mexico. You yourself need to return and elect responsible officials who will help provide better education and health care for the people. You cannot do that by hiding out in the USA.  I have no brothers and have been married to a wonderful German woman for 40 years. She applied for a Green Card and accompanied me to the USA - LEGALLY!!!!


July 30, 2010, 3:03 p.m.

Now Nathan, calling names is not nice or Politically Correct.  The PC term is cognitively challenged.

The conditions in the poll I cite are not all that outrageous from the one you cite:  Apply, have a job, pay back taxes.

Point being, if you ask any questions with enough juicy caveats then you can get 90-105% to agree.

Again, you missed the point and an opportunity to discuss the real issue.  Sad.


July 30, 2010, 3:03 p.m.

And LTC: “Why did the US go one way and Mexico another.”

Yu sound like yu think it my fault Mexico is bad now cuz my ancesters didnt do what yor ancestors did? Yu did nothing.  Yu just hate and hate and it will eat yu up.

Sarah in NH

July 30, 2010, 3:07 p.m.


Something smells rotten in Denmark (or Mexico, or whatever state you are hiding out in illegally), your grammar is atrocious, but you seem to have rather intelligent responses… Regardless, I suggest you move to Massachusetts with all the dirty libs that will love to support you and your illegal kids.  Good luck!


July 30, 2010, 3:11 p.m.

It’s been fun.  Have a nice weekend everyone.

Brian Fortier

July 30, 2010, 3:35 p.m.

Not a bad debate, almost no adhom.  However, not any concern exdpressed about the danger to national security posed by porous borders.

I invite every person, here, who thinks that the borders are too long or to expensive to completely control, to offer their thoughts on how that affects our national security.  Hundreds streaming into the US every day, unknown and unidentified, who may or may not wish us harm, and who may or may not be backed by Al Qaeda.

Ask the FBI for an estimate of how many foreign agents are in the country as we speak.
Those, who refuse to close the shutters against our enemies, aid them.

Mad Jayhawk

July 30, 2010, 3:44 p.m.

If Obama gives 12 million illegal immigrants amnesty, there will be a 10,000,000 man march on Washington to shut down the government until he is impeached and removed from office.

I hope that in November 2010 and November 2012 voters remember who supports breaking of federal law to suit their political ends.  They should remember who sued a state for enforcing laws while looking the other way while other states do not.  We have one political party in this country that is proud of the fact that they support illegal immigration and allowing the borders to be opened up to everyone and anyone who wants to enter this country.  Democrats.

Charlie B

July 30, 2010, 3:45 p.m.

If he does this, I will no longer support President Obama. People should never be rewarded while doing something illegal. I just can’t get around that fact.


July 30, 2010, 4:03 p.m.

Maria, That was about your stupidest comment thus far. Talitha did not express bitterness about her ancestors being brought forcibly to America. It was simply a statement of fact. The bitter person appears to be you that we would even consider that if you are here in the US illegally that you should be deported. The more you respond to comments the more bitter you sound.


July 30, 2010, 4:08 p.m.

Why is this not Mexico problem. Why can’t they support thier own people. They have the resouces.
The Mexican govnerment need to fix thier problems,
rather them say it’s american problem only. If they would pay good wages at the factory that have moved to Mexico people there could make a good living. Some of the manufacturer that are im Mexico are Schlage Lock, Hemi motors as example. So who not helping thier own. Should start at home where the problem begin.


July 30, 2010, 4:30 p.m.

Read your Constitution it clearly outlines who has the right to regulate immigration.  Before commenting on immigration, most of you should do more thorough research on the history of immigration law in the United States.  Going back to the 1700’s not 1900’s.  Also, sending all 11 million illegal immigrants home will not solve the major issue, but granting amnesty to all 11 million illegal immigrants won’t work either.  Regardless of party affiliation or opinion the following rules should be applied when coming up with balanced immigration reform: Humanity, justice, and sustainability.


July 30, 2010, 4:37 p.m.

Sam Nicolosi you, of course, are correct:
The correct inference follows:

“When Bush did it, you didn’t raise any objection, so it must have been AN OKAY THING to do, RIGHT?

After all,
You are not the sort of person who would
TURN A BLIND EYE eye to something WRONG, just because it was YOUR GUY doing it…

Peter Walker

July 30, 2010, 5:17 p.m.

If Obama tries ANYTHING to bypass Congress, that will provide legitimate legal grounds for IMPEACHING HIM. This is yet another reason why we should elect a REPUBLICAN MAJORITY House and Senate this fall! To curb Obama!

Web Smith

July 30, 2010, 5:33 p.m.

This is subversive. Don’t ordinary citizens get pt in jail for circumventing the law?


July 30, 2010, 6:14 p.m.

Ilegal Inmigrants are ilegal because there is not an honest viable way to inmigrate to US. When a foreigner asks information at any US embassy around the world, usually they tell her / him that such idea is beyond their means if the prospect imigrant is not a genius, a wealthy individual or a well connected celebrity. There are not applications for hardworking people or for average Joes, only for ‘la creme de la creme”. The only real option for a desperate person is to come here and show how serious they are about getting a better life, in the process they will get mixed signals, the American society welcomes CHEAP, cheap products, cheap energy, cheap labor; whatever is cheap here is much better than anything else in the third world, the imigrants will live in substandard comunities, very few will make more than minimum wage, and they will thank god for taking part of the american dream. But they will be blamed for anything that goes wrong, and there will be “tough” citizens who will asociate them with fraud, drug traficking, prostitution, and crime. After all: they are ilegal imigrants

Brian Fortier

July 30, 2010, 6:25 p.m.

Here’s a seldom mentioned, but novel concept;  for all of those who think that America somehow owes them a living, how about organizing and fighting for the things you want in your own country?  The cynical world sneers at the US, but envies it in many ways.  We offer, at sacrifice to our people and treasury, to teach them the ways of a democratic republic, and for the most part they seem unable to achieve it.

Are there no Founders there, who are willing to sacrifice “their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor”?  Try putting your own house in order before you find fault with ours.


July 30, 2010, 6:34 p.m.

Pedro: Trust me-President Obama is NOT even REMOTELY thinking of re-election! He knows he is a one-term President. He also knows that after November, when the Republicans take control of the Congress (House AND Senate) - that his last 2-years in office will be the worst of any President in history. His Presidency will become worse than Jimmy Carter’s - if it hasn’‘t already.


July 30, 2010, 6:57 p.m.

I find myself both impressed (favorably) and dismayed by the comments posted here. the issues involved in establishing an effective, equitable and just immigration policy and practice are far from simple, else we would not be having this debate, and if the issues are not simple, then it is extremely unlikely that the solution(s) would be simple. A few considerations:

1. It is within the constitutional obligation (not just right) for the executive branch to interpret the laws established by Congress, subject to the limits imposed by the Judiciary. Party affiliation is irrelevant to this obligation, but does affect the manner in which the law is applied, I may agree with or object to the interpretation, that that is an inherent part of our governmental system, and helps to prevent tyranny.

2. The law is the law, but the law can be and often is changed. Most often, the law is changed as a consequence of an injured party gaining support for challenging the existing law. If the law were immutable, slave owners would still have three votes for every five slaves they owned…

3. I want to live here, not in amy of the other countries in which I have lived or have visited. That also means that I recognize the need for national security. This is an absolute.

4. However, we should never lose sight of the moral values that have underlaid our nation. One of them is at the base of a statue given us by France in 1886 (it was planned for a centenial gift in 1876): “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breath free…”

5. Perhaps a bit of understanding is called for in recognizing that some people come here illegally because of desperation… What laws would you or I break in order to better feed our respective families?

We must recognize that some of the principles of the last three items above contradict each other. I would argue that we must strive for a sense of balance here, not rigid adherence to one extreme principle or another - whether on the Right or the Left. Where there is controversy based upon differing values, then discourse and compromise is generally the most just means of resolving the conflict.

I suspect that stripping away the politics and rhetoric, most of us here would agree that our important values include both protecting the country (and its citizens) and trying to better the lives of people in general.

Amd finally, the issue that started this chain of posts talks about a means of legally relaxing certain immigration policies, but nowhere in the memo is there reference to wholesale amnesty, etc., nor some of the other extreme actions that have provoled such fear and ire.

Enjoy the weekend, everyone.

Sam Nicolosi

July 30, 2010, 7 p.m.

@ Brian F., who wrote:
“Not a bad debate, almost no adhom.  However, not any concern exdpressed about the danger to national security posed by porous borders.”


“Those, who refuse to close the shutters against our enemies, aid them”.

Nice post, Brian, but I think that “the problem” is better framed as this question: “Are we willing to bear the RISK that is part and parcel with being an OPEN SOCIETY?

If we choose to “be kept safe”, we will not be free.
We have enormously long borders, and they have NEVER been sealed. The most we can accomplish as a free and open society is to identify, and then deal with the criminal element. We should stop worrying over transient farm workers who may have overstayed their work visas, or the hard working migrant parents who are just trying to give their children a better life. If our immigration quotas were more realistic, and not racially biased against
dark-skinned Latinos, this problem would not be so great.

Brian Fortier

July 30, 2010, 7:24 p.m.

Thank you, Sam.  While the ordinary catalogue of crimes resulting from uncontrolled immigration remains a legitimate concern, national security takes precedent over all.  You have touched on a point that receives little mention, because it seems to confound our efforts to cope with it.
As the world population grows, the numbers of poor, downtrodden and suffering people increases accordingly.  Perhaps even faster.  The freedoms that we seek to preserve are whittled away, by our own free will, as we attempt to raise the lifestyle of those less fortunate.
The beckoning sign on the Statue of Liberty invites all, but practically there has to be a limit.  The advocates of nation-building recognize that the best way to solve this is to bring our proven way of governing to other peoples, to teach them how to fish, instead of trying to feed them all.
However, no program of aid, no system of sharing and no effort at educating can be successful if we neglect our national security.  The cancer that is Al qaeda persists, and uncontrolled borders are an open invitation to those who would use the ease of entry to destroy us.


July 30, 2010, 7:42 p.m.

I would like you all to remeber that there are not just Mexicans here illegally.  How about Central Americans and what about those that are not Hispanic backgrounds that are living here too.

Pancho Villa

July 30, 2010, 8:09 p.m.

Undocumented foreign nationals ? - Do you mean ILLEGAL ALIENS?


July 30, 2010, 9 p.m.

If this does happen (by Exceutive Order)
then what about my Husband and tens of thousands who were kicked out and given a ten year BARR from the states, does this mean that the 212a9c is then NULL AND VOID?
(212a9c; multiple entries without premission/10 year barr).
I would like that very much as waiting the rest of his barr (4 years) would be hell, we already lost our house ours cars and our savings, when INS “re-instated” him.
As i am Disabled, i can hardly make it on my SS# check, need my guy back and my babies need their daddy, not to mention the bigger breadwinner in the family!  HE was supporting ME! ....none of that “dead beat” crap some people call illegals, living off the system happing in MY situation.

Come on Obama, you promised something, if CIR was done this year, they would take down the BARRS that so many families have to contend with, otherwise we have to wait until the time is up then they our spouses can come back.

Bring it.


July 30, 2010, 9:56 p.m.

If students who complete 12 grade cannot go any further to a University or College because they are here illegally (especially if they were brought here when they were still small kids) they will become criminals in the long term.

These students who are about 18 when they complete high school also want to live in this world and have a decent lifestyle like any other person.

If the Government does not let them get an education the Government is forcing them to become criminals.

How else will they earn the money they need for a decent life. By flipping burgers at Burger King for the rest of their lives?

In fact, they cannot even work at Burger King because they do not have a Social Security number and also cannot get a driving license so how will they go to work.

This is what is happening in many African Countries because there are insufficient schools and colleges.
I grew up in Zambia so I know.
Kids who fail Elementary school can’t go further and those who fail middle school can’t go onto High School so they sit around and do nothing.

After a few years they are grown up adults with no education or skills. So how will they get money to survive and meet their food bills and all?

By criminal acts , what else?

So His Excellency President Obama should enforce certain immigration laws in the name of public security.



Michael Cera

July 30, 2010, 9:58 p.m.



July 31, 2010, 4:01 a.m.

What was all that tripe about Obama being the great hope to heal the country, to unite people, to UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION.

He has done nothing but lie, divide, trash the constitution, appoint czars that are child-loving perverts, if it were within my power Obama would be gone it 30 seconds flat.


July 31, 2010, 4:05 a.m.

Here’s an idea, since to Obama laws were made to be broken, borders meant to be violated, why doesn’t he open up the white house to whoever wants to come on in and set up shop with him, molest his daughters, rape his wife, steal his food, his furniture, his peace of mind.  Why have laws about who can come in your house when you don’t have laws about who can come in your country illegally.  Then let them illegally invade obama’s space and educate the man what happens when you don’t enforce the law.

I despise obama and everything he stands for. 

He is teaching me one thing.  I now believe in the anti-christ and it is him.

Grant Haskell

July 31, 2010, 4:55 a.m.

Anne I think you are just a little over the top with the last comment. I think most everyone forgets that these are Human Beings. The only thing that really separates them from us is a divergent line drawn in the sand 100years ago but a war and a land purchase.

What I can’t understand is why we solely blame the immigrant. Yes they are violating an arbitrary law that is been subject to great change over 300 years. From the mid 18th century to the beginning of the 19th, this country was fed by an influx of western and eastern European immigrants. I know the phrase is cliche at this point but we are all sons and daughters of immigrants.

Part of me wants to say all you people with the rigid view of “get rid of them” is fueled by fear of a darker skinned people. I know this is not true. its too easy of an explanation. Chances are many of you have been affected by illegal aliens on some level, others may be fueling a partisan divide, some probably genuinely believe that the proper actions must be taken to earn the right to be an American citizen.

This document is funny and I’m surprised no one has considered that it’s an attempt by the Administration to force the issue. Congress has failed to do its job and make laws, so the executive is going to do its job and enforce existing laws haw it determines they should be. That is the basic role of those branches.

The fact is the document suggests ways to give amnesty to some individuals when the case warrants, ie illegals who came as children and are now adults, parents of multiple children now legal US citizens etc.

What I am aghast about is the lack of accountability that most of you show towards private industry in the states. Since many want a smaller gov’t we leave the policing of illegals to private companies who are supposed to turn down the cheaper labor and report suspected infraction. Instead they pursue their bottom line and we blissfully blame the illegals.

This issue is too complex for such rigid and simplistic stances. These are Human Beings who often are fleeing poverty, crime and destitution. I do not pretend to have the answers and I could go on for a great time with my opinions, the fact is we need a dialogue and a multi-faceted approach and none of this chest banging.


July 31, 2010, 6:09 a.m.

Grant, you make a couple of good points but I believe you missed on a couple of others. I for one do not blame the illegal immigrants. I simply have no tolerance for them!!  They are ILLEGAL! The federal government is to blame. You are wrong though in stating the fed has not passed laws to control the situation. Yes, they have passed laws - some good ones, too. Problem is that the government agency set up to enforce the laws has not done their job and continue to refuse to do their job. The tools are in place to handle the illegal immigration problem. Double whammy is that when states like Arizona realize the government is not enforcing federal law and they try to be proactive the government wants to quash their efforts. If the US were to institute a national ID card and that card had to be shown when applying for a job and when trying to rent or buy a residence, the problem would basically take care of itself. Without jobs and a place to live the illegals would quickly return home. Persons here on a work visa, student visa, etc., would have the appropriate stamp in their passport and that document would have to be shown in lieu of the national ID card. If the stamp is expired then the person is here illegally. So? No job, no place to live!  Good-bye, illegal. Adios. Auf Wiedersehen. Do Svidanie. Or whatever language they speak, as I really do understand that not only Hispanics are entering illegally - or entering legally and then staying beyond the legal deadline.


July 31, 2010, 10:51 a.m.

I wish Obama worked this hard for the legal citizens of the U.S. He’s a sellout.

angel carter

July 31, 2010, 11:48 a.m.

Then why even have immigration laws and procedures?  We’ve had amnesty once in my lifetime already that I recall.  So we do it again.  And in another 20 years we do it again.  Why not just pull the guards off the borders?  They are breaking the law by simply being here illegally.  Many continue to break laws once here.  And there are quite a few here to do harm to our country.  WAKE UP!! 

We shouldn’t be talking about ways to make it easier for illegals to be in our country.  We need to make it harder.  Crack down on those who employ illegals.  Crack down on those that house illegals.  Then many will leave on their own if unable to find work and housing.  Those that don’t we need to put them in a tent city like the jail in one county down in Arizona for a certain period of time then ship them back to whatever country they are here from ILLEGALLY.

How are American citizens treated when they try to live in other countries illegally?  Would Mexico give me housing assistance and other governmental programs assistance if I went there and had a baby yet I was illegal?  Would China pay for my children to go to school there and teach them in English if I were there illegally?  Would I be able to find work and housing in Iraq if I were there illegally?

We have immigration procedures and laws.  Lets enforce the laws.  The rest of the world doesn’t worry about what Americans think of their immigration process and laws.  Why are we trying to cater to what the rest of the world thinks we should do?


July 31, 2010, 2:54 p.m.

Watch the deficit go nuts when you add 20 plus million to the national health care plan.

christopher keith jenkins

July 31, 2010, 3:29 p.m.

if you do it youll lose your freedom.


July 31, 2010, 3:46 p.m.

This whole illegal immigration thing is about nothing else but many good (but somewhat poor) people wanting a better life for their kids and themselves because the country they live in is messed up and they cannot fight the politicians there.

And it is also about COMPASSION.

These folks cannot get jobs in their countries because of intolerable corruption, with what little money they can earn, they cannot even afford the most basic things in life for survival
and the economy has gone to the dogs.

In many countries the politicians are getting richer
and only a few rich people run the economy.

The majority of the people have a hopeless existence.

Put yourself in thier shoes .
If you had a family with kids and you could not get enough food and then you look across the fence and you your neighbor has a lot of food and great lifestyle, will you not ask them to help you?

This is why they came to USA and are asking Obama for help.

Have compassion guys.
Jesus did.
If you are not a Christian that is OK but all religions demand that followers should have a merciful heart.



July 31, 2010, 4:32 p.m.

Sorry, Sam from Zambia. Although I really do understand their problems and family concerns I still say they need to come here legally or not at all. The law is still the law. As Angel pointed out a bit earlier if we were to try and enter Mexico or many other countries we would be stopped cold in our tracks. In Mexico we would be summarily thrown in jail - for starters!! Agreed that it takes a long time to work your way up the list for legal entry into the US. That is not a hit on our quotas. It is simply indicative of just how many people from all over the world want so much to come to America. Do it legally or pay the consequences. Those who enter illegally are doing their families a disservice for if they are caught they should be immediately deported. Once returning to their home country they then have to try and get jobs locally again since they gave it up to sneak into the US. Yes, compassion is wonderful but I see no reason to sacrifice everything I and my family have worked so hard for in order to hand it all over to criminals, and that is what an illegal immigrant is - a criminal. They have one single “right” in our country when they enter illegally - they have the right to get the hell out!!

Very Simple

July 31, 2010, 4:46 p.m.

The problem is most of the guys who are against giving legal status to illegals do NOT understand economics.

Like most uninformed people who do not know a damn thing about world politics, they say meaningless stuff.(Go Ahead, get mad at me now).

Most of these guys know where the Burger King or Wal-Mart is and may be a few things about where they work.

Most have NO IDEA about things like geography, world politics, gobal economy etc.

Do you think all these illegals are NOT working right now?

Of course they are - but they are not paying income taxes because they do not have a social security number,
They get paid in cash.
Guve them SS number so they can pay income taxes and file tax returns.

If you don.t like illegal immigration then first have consensus amongst the senators and then in a serious manner with specific intent draw up a proper plan and execute it.



July 31, 2010, 5:02 p.m.

Bypass Congress.
Please remember if a POTUS can bypass Congress to do what you want, he can bypass it to do what you don’t want. There is separation of powers for a reason
Impeachment. It’s not just for sex any more.

Guy from Zambia

July 31, 2010, 5:24 p.m.

Yes Sam Jr.
Laws are very important.
We are talking about human beings and America is not just any other coubtry in the world like Mexico

USA stands for freedom - it is the ONE country in the world where a person can be really free and where COMPASSION in embedded in its CONSTITUTION.

When we are talking about people who have been here for many years,  have children born in USA and these kids are in middle schools and High schools then deporting them is INHUMANE.

YOU YOURSELF may not like that and may be supporting inhumane behaviour is not a big deal for you.
In fact now so many people are upset with how the Government is handling the immigration issue that many people do not care about illegals or how they are treated.

If it was upto people who had no compassion then I guess just round them up and shoot them, RIGHT?
After all, they broke the law, right?

Take some time to FULLY UNDERSTAND the meaning of the word COMPASSION and not just from a linguistic point of view but from deep within your heart.

Guy from Zambia

Guy from Zambia

July 31, 2010, 5:48 p.m.

OK - so instead of criticising His Excellency President Obama, let us strongly urge him to enforce that “Leaked Memo from White House”.

First fix the existing problem then plug the loop holes in the system.

Guy from Zambia


July 31, 2010, 5:57 p.m.

We were once a nation of laws. We all understood we had to conduct our lives within the bounds of the law.

Now we seem to have become a nation lead by law breakers recruiting and conspiring with other law breakers, all at the expense of law abiders.


July 31, 2010, 5:58 p.m.

This would be good.  We would be able to rescue our brethren being murdered and oppressed in South Africa and Rhodesia.

Brian Fortier

July 31, 2010, 7:41 p.m.

“First fix the existing problem then plug the loop holes in the system.

Guy from Zambia “

Cart before the horse syndrome.  The ship has a hole in its hull.  First, bale furiously to empty out the water, then fix the hole in the hill..

Guy from Zambia

July 31, 2010, 8:14 p.m.

Yes John, I know we were once a nation of laws.

And in that same country at one time, in 1650 to be exact, Connecticut legalized slavery.

And in that same country, in 1664, Maryland established slavery for life for persons of African ancestry.

And in that same country,in 1670,Massachusetts permitted the sale of children of enslaved parents.

And in that same country, in 1672, Virginia law banned prosecution for the killing of a black slave if the death came during the course of his or her apprehension.

And in that same country, in 1917 a Riot erupted in Houston between black soldiers and white citizens; Twenty-nine black soldiers were EXECUTED because TWO WHITE people were shot while trying to curb civil restlessness.

You need to understand that Laws are meant for people and PEOPLE ARE NOT MADE FOR LAWS.

Sometimes the Laws need to be changed.

Guy from Zambia

Guy from Zambia

July 31, 2010, 8:40 p.m.

Yes Brian Fortier,
There is always an exception to the Rule.
Because Rules are made for people and not other way round. People are not made for Rules.

Sometimes in order to be practical, we have to make an exception to the Rule.
If the Ship was sinking of course you would plug the hole first.

But sometimes life situations are somewhat different from your TEXTBOOK PHILOSOPHY and requires moe humane and practical execution of solutions at hand.

You know, all of us can go on and on and on till Christ comes back with all kinds of smart replies to each others comments.
But that takes us nowhere.

At some point some action has to be taken.
Pesident Obama keeps saying “The buck stops here” and that he does not wish to “Kick the can down the road ” but that is EXACTLY what he is doing at the moment.

The white guys ruled in India for 400 years and made laws that were good for them but not for Indians.
You think that was cool.
Of course those silly laws will be broken by the people who are natives.

OK That is enough for me now,

Guy from Zambia


July 31, 2010, 8:43 p.m.

an immigration reform gonna help lots of people and i think he gonna get through

Brian Fortier

July 31, 2010, 9:46 p.m.

Guy From Zambia,

Two corrections:  My remarks are not meant to be “smart” remarks, and should not be taken as such.

No, I do not think it was “cool” that India was ruled by England or anyone else.

You night have missed my invitation to you and others to offer solutions to the multiude of problems that unchecked illegal immigration causes, mostly for national security.

In doing so, remember the example resulting from Reagan’s amnesty program, which did provide a humane solution to the illegals already here, but had the unintended consequences of encouraging hordes of new seekers to cross the borders without authorization.  So, the problem persists, today. Once assylum has been granted, pressure to comtrol the borders wanes.  See the history.

While the main focus has been on the Hispanics, the ban applies to all races and creeds, simply requiring them to comply with the law, as all other countries do.

As a matter of logic, consider this;  if prior to coming into this country, a person demonstrates his/her disdain for the law, and claims that other considerations take precedence,  why should anyone think that they will have respect for the law after they become citizens?

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